Trann's Upstairs Reno

[Trann]

After my basement reno, I was given the task of taking on upgrading some of the rooms upstairs.

That was almost two years ago (the first year was a break to relax and enjoy the man cave; the second has been utter procrastination). To get myself in gear, I made myself a deal that when I finish the tasks, I'll allow myself to rebuild my poker tables and sell off the originals. Now I have a goal.

Since I've got a few things I'll be working on for a while -- painting, new flooring, etc. -- and they're really smaller jobs compared to a basement reno, I decided to put anything of interest in this one thread instead.

...

Patching the walls in the kids' rooms. The youngest has a number of dings but the eldest... well, this has to be seen.

The left wall had push-pins holding everything from posters to mini-sticks to pucks; the window wall had words and names scratched into the paint.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0288.jpg

The right wall was another party of dings with a circle scratched into the paint. The kid still doesn't know why/what he was drawing at the time.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0290.jpg

He wants a team colour on the wall but, annoyingly, Home Depot -- the official carrier of NHL colours -- is some 5 years out of synch with his favorite team's new colours. We've tried matching to paint chips but it's just too far off: home shades are so pastel and safe.

Instead, we've ordered the other half of his room's decor: a fathead logo to go on the wall. Once we get that, we'll do a colour match on that and go from there.

I did a mock up to ensure he was going to be happy with the results.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/caps-wall.jpg

Kids these days...

[IFLOPPEDITSUCKER]

CAPS! CAPS! CAPS! until the playoffs, then we're one and done.

[Quads]

CAPS! CAPS! CAPS! until the playoffs, then we're one and done.

Yeah, it's almost like they need a regular season coach, and then a play off coach.

[Wedge Rock]

BTW, wet sanding for the :win:...

[Scuba_Dave]

Good luck with red....its gonna take a few coats

I already have a rule with wife & son
NOTHING gets tacked/nailed or attached to the walls without my approval
Wifey already put up some of that "non-stick" little adhesives & they were discoloring sons bedrooms walls AFTER I just redid the whole room
Prior to redoing his room she put up some of those "easy to remove adhesive" hooks to hang something up
When removed they peeled the paint off the trim :mad:

[Richard Cranium]

C A P S CAPS CAPS CAPS!

I'd try to convince him to do an old school caps. Like they did for the winter classic. the stars could go all the way around the room with a capitals logo somewhere in the middle. Save yourself from all the red paint.

http://www.tradebeneficiary.com/pic/NHL-Washington-Capitals--2319-Backstrom-White-Winter-Classic-Jersey-5491.jpg

http://cdn.nhl.com/images/upload/2010/10/ovechkin_alex_caps_2011_winter-classic_jersey_unveiled_325x183.jpg

[Seven©]

the window wall had words and names scratched into the paint.


warrants an ass whippin'

How Color Psychology Plays a Role Color Selection 101:

Bright, bold red has been associated with headaches and aggression.


No need to add to teen angst. IJS, YMMV.

[Trann]

I know *I'm* already angst-ridden: working with red paint sucks. This may be my own fault/inexperience with bright colours and primer...

The walls in both rooms were primed with two coats and seemed good enough to go forward. I've put down three coats of red and the underlying base is still showing through: bright areas of primer on patched drywall contrasted against darker areas where blue previously existed. Compare that with the other room's single coat of beige/brown and it's apparent that two coats will be nice (three, if we really feel like it but probably unnecessary).

Research suggests red tint actually thins the base paint and makes it more translucent. Suggestions are also to either tint the paint red (which makes it pinkish and possibly less effective) or grey (better under-coat coverage and helps with darkening, as opposed to white primer).

Rather than continue with 6-8 coats of red (and not being sure it will end there), I think I'm going to reprime with a grey-tinted primer. I'll put down 2-3 coats until it's a perfectly even surface and then start with the red again. Based on how I've seen it go on a dark background (the less-than-perfectly primed blue wall), it should look good with a 2-3 coat coverage because the primer coat is even.

What a wasted weekend...

[getatjbrown]

I HATE red paint!!! I discourage every person that asks me!.... Good Luck

[Scuba_Dave]

What brand paint are you using ?
Hint: Behr sucks
We used a pinkish primer & probably 3-4 coats of Behr red

Primered:
http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/DIYChatroom/Before/DSC00010.jpg

[Trann]

What brand paint are you using ?
Hint: Behr sucks
We used a pinkish primer & probably 3-4 coats of Behr red


CIL. Behr was avoided.

Here's a snapshot of the one wall I originally highlighted... the drywall patch contrast is still visible under two coats of paint here.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0311.jpg

I have a feeling this is at a cusp: it could be done in almost as many coats of red as I'm going to do with 2 of grey primer and 2+ of red again. I'm liking a grey primer over red-tint (aka pinkish) because the red should be darker rather than lighter.

[Richard Cranium]

*AHEM* try to convince him of the brilliance of my idea above. It's mostly white, but still has the cool capitals flavor.

[Quads]

I'm reading this and cringing.
I need to paint the master bath after I'm done in the dinning room. Wifey picked out the paint, and a primer / sealer. It's "white" for the sake of this conversation. The paint on the walls now is damn near eggplant.

I'm thinking I'm going to need 2 or 3 coats of sealer, then prolly two coats of paint at a min. She didn't get Behr. Bought it at Lowes. So whatever their high end label is. Olympic?

[Wedge Rock]

Sherwin Williams FTGDW.

[Trann]

On the plus side, the second bedroom is going just fine.

My paranoia meter's sensitivity has been dialed way up from the red room (REDRUM!) so even seeing wet paint (lighter) over drier paint (darker) was making me think the coverage wasn't happening.

Thankfully, time is proving me out. A picture of the wall this evening is pointless by itself (the coverage is nice and even) so I figure this four frame animation will illustrate things better...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/bed-a.gif

I plan to do a third and final coat using only the rollers: I cut into the corners twice so far and I figure I'll just roll up to them a third time using a mini-roller to cover the brush strokes.

If all goes well, the youngest is back in his room this weekend.

As an aside, he's been enjoying his new digs for the past month...


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0302.jpg

[Trann]

Second bedroom done.

It went from baby blue walls and Winnie the Pooh framed prints (sorry, no actual pics available)...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0291.jpg

...to earthy brown and exotic cars. All choices made by the boy. The first pic is more indicative of the colour; the other two are a bit washed out.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0332.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0333.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0345.jpg

...

Red Room has been prepped with two coats of tinted primer and, except for one spot where a bubble appeared (OCD! OCD!), the room has a perfect prison-quality grey to it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0316.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0347.jpg

In the past, I've always cut all my corners then rolled over top of that. After the first coat, you couldn't tell where the overlap was. I expect this was because most paint colours (if they're not cheap brands) have a decent hide.

Tonight, I am going to put my coats on using a method I've found others have done but I've never: one wall at a time. I'll cut the corners and then roll while that paint is still wet. My hope is that this method will reduce any layering effect by the more translucent red.

This room *will* be slayed.

[huge1s]

We just painted our daughters room and thought I would share a tip I have been doing on all my paint jobs lately.... caulk the tape with a clear, paintable caulk. You don't need much, and you almost wipe it all off. It makes the job take longer, but it produces perfectly clean paint lines.... (maybe you already knew this). I have knockdown texture, and this method prevents any bleeding (and me having to go back with a tiny paint brush).

[Trann]

Help me understand because this is new to me: caulk the tape? How is this done? What does it accomplish?

[Quads]

You can caulk the tape, or do what's called backpaint it.
You lay your tape down, paint the color of the paint in which you already have to seal it, then paint your new color on top of it. That way when you paint your (presumably) darker color on the paint, you already have it sealed with the backpaint that filled the cracks on the tape.

Same effect (affect) on the clear caulk. You're using it to seal the little tiny cracks between the tape and the wall so your painted on color doesn't bleed through.

[Wedge Rock]

Still lost.

[Quads]

Still lost.

OK, follow along.
You have a white wall. You want to put a black stripe on.
Tape the wall where you want the stripe.
Paint the tape WHITE (at at least half of the tape where you will paint over it with black)
with it semi dry, dry enough to paint over it,
Paint the black over it and where you want the stripe on the wall, etc..
Wait 20 minutes.
Peel tape.
You have a *perfect* line between the white and black with no bleed.
Especially with a knock down / orange peel textured wall. (california thing, they don't do it much in the midwest)

Replace white paint for clear kawk.

Ya dig?

[Trann]

I'd draw a picture to help but I don't get it, either. Using your black stripe on a white wall example and assuming you'd mask the tape as expected for a "normal" stripe painting...

I don't see what painting the tape white accomplishes. Even if you paint right up to the edge where you want the black, it's on top. How does it seal anything?

When you paint black on the wall up to the tape, I expect there's bleed under the tape because nothing is "sealed" from the bleed under.

L O S T

...

FWIW, first coat of red is beautiful... deeper and darker and even... second coat goes on tomorrow night.

And because this will be a battle, I gained a few bubbles. I've *never* gotten bubbles in paint before...

[huge1s]

1) Tape off wall as you normally would
2) Run a thin bead of PAINTABLE caulk along the inside edge of the tape (the edge that you are painting up to). You don't need very much, just enough to cover the edge of the tape.
3) Wipe caulk in a way that leaves a very thin coat on the wall and tape. The caulk will be pushed into any gaps that are underneath the tape and create a seal between the wall and the tape.
4) Paint the wall as you normally would, painting up and onto the tape.
5) Peal tape off wall and look at very straight line with no bleeds onto the non-painted area. Any caulk that was left on the wall is now painted your new color.

You can create the same effect using paint instead of caulk. Obviously, the paint you would use should be the same color as the area you do not intend to paint. In my case, the lady that sold us the house did not leave touch up paint, so caulk was used. It really makes for nice clean painted edges.

[Trann]

I think I got it. That's a really interesting methodology.

The paintable caulk (or paint matching the existing wall colour) will itself seep under the tape and dry.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C01hfYKpVJY/S40cCZYLyLI/AAAAAAAAD4Y/-V-bZJy7xGY/s400/Stripes+2.jpg
Ref. Tiny Tidbits: How to Paint Stripes on the Wall (http://sometinytidbits.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-to-paint-stripes-on-wall.html)

When you then paint with your desired colour, you get a crisp edge because there's no place for it to bleed.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_C01hfYKpVJY/S40cCJQ5mcI/AAAAAAAAD4Q/5ufcWmXOcf8/s400/Stripes+3.jpg

I'm guessing that if the tape is firmly applied, there is no such issue with edges or ridges from the caulk/paint that went on first?

And what happens with the unpainted caulk that has bled under?

[huge1s]

You got it. I actually caulk on top of the tape, just along the edge. This will leave some caulk on the wall... but it gets painted. It is also such a thin layer that you can't see any effect of the caulk on the wall.

Clear caulk is key as well....so you don't see the caulk that seeped under the tape. There will be a slight ridge but you would have to be 2 inches away from it to see.

[aceinthehole4212]

Or instead of going to all the trouble of applying a bead of cock to your tape, you could just buy this stuff.

Frog Tape (http://www.frogtape.com/)

[huge1s]

Or instead of going to all the trouble of applying a bead of cock to your tape, you could just buy this stuff.

Frog Tape (http://www.frogtape.com/)

I found that it was not much better than blue tape.... but I have knockdown texture which doesn't leave me with many options. I have never used frog tape on a non textured wall.

[Wedge Rock]

1) Tape off wall as you normally would
2) Run a thin bead of PAINTABLE caulk along the inside edge of the tape (the edge that you are painting up to). You don't need very much, just enough to cover the edge of the tape.
3) Wipe caulk in a way that leaves a very thin coat on the wall and tape. The caulk will be pushed into any gaps that are underneath the tape and create a seal between the wall and the tape.
4) Paint the wall as you normally would, painting up and onto the tape.
5) Peal tape off wall and look at very straight line with no bleeds onto the non-painted area. Any caulk that was left on the wall is now painted your new color.

You can create the same effect using paint instead of caulk. Obviously, the paint you would use should be the same color as the area you do not intend to paint. In my case, the lady that sold us the house did not leave touch up paint, so caulk was used. It really makes for nice clean painted edges.

Thank you huge1s.

BTW, Quads, your quoted text below does not say the say thing as huge1s said above:

OK, follow along.
You have a white wall. You want to put a black stripe on.
Tape the wall where you want the stripe.
Paint the tape WHITE (at at least half of the tape where you will paint over it with black)
with it semi dry, dry enough to paint over it,
Paint the black over it and where you want the stripe on the wall, etc..
Wait 20 minutes.
Peel tape.
You have a *perfect* line between the white and black with no bleed.
Especially with a knock down / orange peel textured wall. (california thing, they don't do it much in the midwest)

It may have intended to convey the same meaning, but it just doesn't.

[Slev]

Or instead of going to all the trouble of applying a bead of cock to your tape, you could just buy this stuff.

Frog Tape (http://www.frogtape.com/)

I have also found that frog tape is no better than the blue painter's tape. Just another marketing gimmick.

[JCinPA]

I don't know, maybe if your wall is textured. I watched the video on their site "how it works" and it's impressive as hell on a piece of window glass! Over a smooth wall with semi-gloss or gloss paint, I suspect it will work pretty much as advertised.

Then again, the link Trann posted is the simplest solution of all and looks like it might work. I'm getting the itch to paint something.

[Quads]

You guys are fucking thick.
A journeyman painter taught me that trick in 18 seconds and I got it instantly.

[JCinPA]

Well.

We are thick. :oops: guilty as charged.

[Trann]

You guys are fucking thick.
A journeyman painter taught me that trick in 18 seconds and I got it instantly.
Did he also use text, incomplete sentences, and poor grammar?

[JCinPA]

+rep for that one :lol:

[Quads]

Did he also use text, incomplete sentences, and poor grammar?

Of course. He was from Canada.

[Wedge Rock]

Of course. He was from Canada.

That was funny.

You're better at humor than you are at teaching painting techniques.

[JumperJeff]

Good thread. I learned something today. My wife wants to repaint the kids' rooms with stripes and now I have a trick to test out! :D

[huge1s]

Apparently I should have started a new thread..... Sorry for the threadjack Trann.

[Trann]

I'll bring it back, don't fret. It's a good place for it, regardless: painting woes.

But the Red Room is being slayed. Just finished the second coat and the wife figures we might have enough. Not a trace of unevenness or primer from beneath.

Personally, I'll probably do what I did for the other room: since the corners are brushed and thus thicker after two coats, I'll do a final, roller-only coat. Scheduled for tomorrow (if nothing is tacky).

[aceinthehole4212]

I found that it was not much better than blue tape.... but I have knockdown texture which doesn't leave me with many options. I have never used frog tape on a non textured wall.

Got ya, I didnt realize you were talking about a textured surface...

[Trann]

Ok, I have some thoughts...

Unlike painting with other colours that usually provide a good "hide" by default, red is your enemy. When any tint is added to a base white, it thins the paint a bit. When red tint is added, it is so translucent that more tint is needed to get the desired colour, further thinning the paint. Stir a bucket of red vs a bucket of beige and it's really quite noticeable.

Your primer base coat must be perfectly even and have a near-finish quality to it. I primed with a light grey. For deep or dark reds, this would be the way to go. Research suggests that tinting the primer red (which produces pink) helps the room achieve a richer shade. I assume priming with white would probably make the red appear the brightest.

No matter your primer, you cannot do the usual few coats leaving you with this (in white)...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0299.jpg

...

Your primer must look as good as a final coat of paint (in grey)...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0348.jpg

So that you can see this, the morning after the second coat...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0358.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0359.jpg

There are no roller marks visible. The two coats have seemingly covered everything. Even the supposed thicker brushed areas in the corners are hard to notice (I do roll right up to them -- master of the steady hand -- so some of that paint is pulled off).

There's the odd bubble here and there but they are tiny. I've not had that happen before so I'm going to find the cause and work to prevent it in the next rooms.

I'm really happy with just the two coats so I'm going to consult with wifey and kid whether I should roller-only third-coat the room.

Either way, I'm not looking forward to cutting through 8 (or 9) layers of paint on the green masking tape... 8)

[huge1s]

You may want to take a utility knife along the edge of that tape before you pull... or pull very very gently. That many coats will not be hardened enough at this point.

[Trann]

Yeah, that's what I meant by cutting: a new blade and a nice drag across the tape just to help things along.

[Trann]

Waited the suggested 30 days before applying the FatHead...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0399.jpg

Considerable slacking is going on with respect to bathroom, master bed, living, dining spaces... by wifey who can't pick a colour.

[Trann]

Ok, kids, we're progressing with Project Staging.

The living room was mostly gutted a few weeks ago with all the furniture being hauled to the dump (to make room for a hockey arena)....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0862.jpg

The windows finally came -- about 3 weeks late! -- and we replaced them.

Note: I should not be allowed near expanding foam (fret not: it was low expansion window/door stuff; I just filled the cavity a bit too close to this side of the wall).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0858.jpg

And this one, well... yeah, take the can of foam away from me, please.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0857.jpg

The foam was easily cut back.

...

So after wifey and I discussed what she wanted done upstairs, my theory is this: rather than finish each room independently, the living room space will now be our staging ground for everything else.

1) Master Bedroom furniture will be moved into this space; MB will be patched and painted; new MB furniture will be acquired and installed; old MB furniture will be trashed.

2) Kitchen fridge/stove and dining table will be moved into this space; kitchen will be patched and painted; new flooring will be installed in kitchen/dining/halls; new fridge/stove/dishwasher will be acquired and installed; old appliances will be recycled/trashed.

3) Bath will be patched and painted.

4) Living room will be patched and painted; new laminate/engineered flooring will be installed; new furniture/HD TV will be acquired and installed.

Wifey is in agreement with the process and we have no timeline set: the budget determines the speed of things (as it did for the basement man cave) and we'll be okay with that. Our living space is the man cave now anyway.

[Wedge Rock]

So after wifey and I discussed what she wanted done upstairs, my theory is this: rather than finish each room independently, the living room space will now be our staging ground for everything else.

Good idea. As little disruption as possible to the rest of the house.

[NathanJax]

What's up with the pink and purple walls?

[Quads]

What's up with the pink and purple walls?

Trann.
It's Canadian for Pink.

[Trann]

It's definitely a pastel purple but I don't care, really.

It was the wifey's colour choices then and it will be wifey's colour choices again: I just do the work.

[TotalDonkey]

It's definitely a pastel purple but I don't care, really.

It was the wifey's colour choices then and it will be wifey's colour choices again: I just do the work.

I'll take, "What are the keys to a successful marriage for $1000, Alex"

Good work Trann!

[Trann]

Master bedroom painted...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0926.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0927.jpg

At first, I thought it was brown but as I got it on the walls, it was described by the wifey as "greeny grey."

I now call it olive drab.

...

Master bedroom furnished...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0951.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0953.jpg

We used to have the classic dresser and chest combo but we went for storage this time. 40% more crap!

...

And I was almost hesitant to share but: Master bedroom christened...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0956.jpg

The delivery guys gave the wall a scuff as they slid one piece in.

I debated pulling out the primer and paint again but that'd be a day's delay while it dried and the wifey wanted to get on with restocking the drawers so we could find things next week.

So I suppressed my OCD and let it slide: it's hidden by one of the chests anyway.


After everything was cleaned up and examined for damage (that's a new sub-thread if that doesn't work out as it's supposed to), I pulled out each piece after the delivery guys put it all in place and give everything bumpers...

The headboard "feet" have a 2x2x7 laying down at each leg to give it some separation from the wall and prevent the bolt heads that hold it to the bed rails from grinding into the paint/drywall...

The dressers now have self-adhesive felt pads attached to the top corners to prevent the edges from chipping away at the wall.

Next: finishing this room up with some wall hooks, pictures/arts/whatever, then it's onto the hallway or dining room or kitchen...

[Scuba_Dave]

Nice job, I've started repainting the house too
It's a winter thing

[NathanJax]

Yeah, my OCD would have me painted that wall by midnight tonight...

Looking good though!

[Quads]

My wifey would fill those drawers up by noon.

[Trann]

So my OCD is part genetic, mostly self-inflicted: I desire order to offset my foibles (laziness, forgetfulness, to name a few).

I wear button-down shirts to the office and they don't get dirty fast so I like to retain them for a few uses before burdoning the laundry fairy. I hated the way my clothes would pile up on the dresser or floor. I used to have a chair in the bedroom and it, too, would quickly become a clothes hanger. I refuse to rehang worn clothing in the closet because it's just not convenient (especially considering how packed it is).

So I decided to get some simple hooks and slap up a rack. Put a set up for me (4 double hooks) and one the wifey (3 double hooks; not pictured).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0957.jpg

Wifey likes it, too, because it's mostly "hidden", giving the illusion of tidiness, and keeps the floor clear.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0959.jpg

Wifey still doesn't want to hang pictures yet. She likes the minimal/clean look right now.

Pricing flooring at the moment...

[Tizzel]

Get one of those things that hang on the back of the bedroom door

[Trann]

Get one of those things that hang on the back of the bedroom door
Bathrooms already have towel racks...

http://www.organizeit.com/images/12001hingeit.jpg

...while bedrooms have a two-hook variant.

[Tizzel]

I was referring to something like this

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/77943_4.jpg

[Wedge Rock]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0959.jpg

That hat on the chest of drawers... I've seen it somewhere before...

[SniperD5]

I was referring to something like this

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/77943_4.jpg

Those are great until you open the door too fast, and put 5 perfectly spaced holes in the drywall.

[Trann]

Those are great until you open the door too fast, and put 5 perfectly spaced holes in the drywall.
Heh.

"Time to get the drywall anchors..."

[Wedge Rock]

http://image.shop.ferguson.com/prodimages/ives/300x300/70B10B.jpg

[Trann]

Whoa. Hey. What is that called?

I could use something like that for the two cabinet doors that open to the side wall: no one's slammed a handle into the drywall yet but it's gonna happen, I know it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/Reno/100_1043.jpg

Any ideas?

[Quads]

Those will only work for doors that are hinged in a jamb. Don't know how well it'd work where you have them in a cabinet because they don't use a standard hinge. That being the case, I'd do a small / decorative chain anchored to the door, and the frame that would stop it from overextending when opened.

[Trann]

I like it.

[huge1s]

what about a bumper on the wall?

[Trann]

I use door bumpers where appropriate but they're out of sight lines and look appropriate; I don't think I'd like the same for the upper cabs here.

[pauld22]

I like Quads' chain idea.

What about changing the four doors on the right side of the doubles so all of the doors open to the left (if possible)?

I still like Quads' chain idea.

[Trann]

Na, ergonomically, it's awkward to open a cab door away from a wall and position yourself in front of it, shoulder to wall, to access it. There'd be a tendency to hyper-extend the hinges, I bet.

No, Quads' idea is off the chain.

[pauld22]

Na, ergonomically, it's awkward to open a cab door away from a wall and position yourself in front of it, shoulder to wall, to access it. There'd be a tendency to hyper-extend the hinges, I bet.

Completely agree.

No, Quads' idea is off the chain.

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/032011/hippo-see-there.jpg

[Trann]

Back on topic: took the week off to do a bit of stuff around the house and this time, the upstairs bath is on the agenda.

When removing the old light bar (about twice as wide as this one)...

http://www.inspectapedia.com/interiors/Bath%201FL%20816%20DJFs.jpg

...I discovered our builder ran the wires straight through the wall and into the fixture with a wire clamp, no outlet box. No biggie to replace, but there's a pesky cripple stud in the way...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1003.jpg

With the consult of a buddy, discovered something I glossed over every other time I was in the electrical section: a pancake box...

http://www.drillspot.com/pimages/312/31291_300.jpg

...which fits the gap of the drywall perfectly. So I wire in the box, drop in the temporary lighting...

http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/234534_front500.jpg

...and get on the prep work: popped the floor trim (which will stay off as we plan for new flooring), pulled out all wall fixtures, patched and sanded the drywall (must wet sand in the future), and taped the rest off. A lot of time was spent layering the plastic and tape around the in-wall cab so that access could still be had.

Renovating a living space is a huge pain.

Wifey comes home last night with a new light for the bath. It, too, is a light bar but with two fluorescents instead of eight globes (and square not round)...

http://common1.csnimages.com/lf/47/hash/9303/3338678/1/American-Fluorescent-One-Light-Curved-Profile-Bath-Vanity-in-Chrome.jpg

...and so I spent the morning wiring in the new light so she can see how it looks (it's a keeper). When I flip over the new unit, it has the same design as the old one (pictured), namely an off-center entry for the wiring.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1000.jpg

Add to this the alignment of the screws in the pancake box, means I either need to drill two new holes through the back plate (new unit has no variance for box screw alignment), or I take out the pancake box completely and use a wire clamp as the builder had done.

I know which is easier. I'm leaning to the former.

So after a run into the city for a few more supplies and wiring the temporary bulb back in, my day ends. Tomorrow, I throw a drop over the counter top and remove the toilet tank to reach that back wall...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1005.jpg

...

But tonight, I rest.

[Quads]

I got a laugh out of your light adventure. As when I did the same thing you're doing a month or so ago, I found the *same* exact thing. No box, just wires.
Easy fix to get it to code and safe.

[Guma]

Another guy keeping the tape suppliers in bid nass!

Great progress though

[Trann]

Primed...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1007.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1008.jpg

Painted...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1011.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1013.jpg

We're getting the flooring done so the baseboards and door trims (which will need trimming to the new floor height) will remain off for now so this room is done.

But my electrical box problem is still a problem: there's not enough depth to the pancake box for a clamp on the fixture to fit in there, nor is there enough room inside the fixture to turn the screw on the clamp if I were to fit it inside the fixture.

Right now, I'm left with this 3/4" gap atop the fixture...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1025.jpg

I'm thinking my best bet is to get a piece of 1/2" board, cut it to standard box dimensions, then bore an oversized hole through the center that accepts the wire clamp attached to the fixture. Other ideas welcome.

[Scuba_Dave]

I got a laugh out of your light adventure. As when I did the same thing you're doing a month or so ago, I found the *same* exact thing. No box, just wires.

Same here, but my wires were connected to fixture outside the wall
The medicine cabinet was mounted on the wall w/lights built in

Did you move the pancake box down for the new light ?
Or is the hole just that much bigger ?

[Trann]

The pancake box is out. The hole is a standard size and the pancake box fits it well (you can see it in the primer shot, holding a single bulb fixture).

The hole appears bigger because the new fixture is a wee bit short of 4" wide so I dropped it a bit to cover the bottom of the hole completely. Ironically, if everything worked out and fit as it should have, you'd see a sliver of the box from beneath the too-narrow fixture.

[Scuba_Dave]

So did you mount a box to the stud ?
Or do you want to re-install the pancake box ?
If installing the pancake box I would put a round cover over it with a hole drilled thru for the wires to the fixture
Not sure how that will work with wiring it up - depends upon the fixture

[Trann]

So we go to a flooring place recommended by a builder friend and wifey really likes two products: Tarkett tiles (for nearly everywhere) and Mannington planks (for the living room only), both called luxury vinyl products.

http://nafco.com/Portals/4/ProductImages/NAFCO/275x275/TM-224.jpg http://www.mannington.com/Residential/Adura/AduraPlank/Essex%20Oak/~/media/Images/Product/Adura/LuxuryPlank/AW512_detail.ashx?bc=efefef&dmc=0&mw=352&w=352
Ref. Product Details (http://nafco.com/Default.aspx?tabid=302&sku=TM-224#) Adura - Vinyl Tile, Vinyl Floor - Mannington Flooring (http://www.mannington.com/Residential/Adura/AduraPlank/Essex%20Oak/AW512.aspx)

We're doing the entire main floor (save bedrooms) so I do a ball park cost of the materials alone at the listed price and we're thinking this is possible. It becomes more attractive when the sales rep says doing that much of our home is something she can discount, too. And with their corporate arm, they can find less expensive patterns that might match and come in even cheaper.

So let's bring out the estimator. He comes by two days later, does his measurements, and lets me ask questions. I get a few out of the way then explain all the prep work I'm prepared to do: pulling floor and door trims, pulling toe kicks, removing carpet, removing furniture/appliances/toilet, and perhaps laying the 3/8" subfloor required where carpet once was, to bring it level to the vinyl in the dining/kitchen/bath areas. He's quite happy to hear this and figures it'll definitely save the installers time = money.

The next day, the quote comes back and it is twice my original ball park for materials alone. Not only that, but it's not itemized at all, just a flat price for the work involving the two products. We're pretty miffed and will be asking all the fine points on this one -- itemized list, deductions taken for my prep in case he didn't pass that along, labour, etc.. But we're still going to hit up two other companies for similar quotes now.

The finesse required for installation makes me think this product, although it may look nice, is delicate -- the estimator said that even the slight ridge pattern of the sheet vinyl it would be laid over would have to be filled with a levelling compound lest that pattern impart itself on the new tiles -- and easily susceptible to damage -- chair feet must be protected with metal sliders, not plastic or felt, rugs and carpets cannot be rubber- or latex-backed, or if fibrous, they may pass on colours.

TL;DR: overprotective flooring is overhyped and overpriced.

If anyone has opinions on this kind of stuff, I'd be happy to hear it.

Dave?

[Trann]

Today, wifey was under the weather and stayed home from work.

Rather than spend my time pulling trim, patching walls, and priming, I spent it in the man cave with her watching Game of Thrones and the last three episodes of Spartacus.

No progress on the job but still a good day.

[huge1s]

Maybe I am not understanding the problem.... but it seems you could mount your electrical box to the stud (moving the hole) and get a fixture that covers it. Most of the vanity lights (and I replace every single light fixture in the house last year) I have used do not need to be centered and have extra holes for mounting it over an off-center electrical box.

[Trann]

Maybe I am not understanding the problem.... but it seems you could mount your electrical box to the stud (moving the hole) and get a fixture that covers it. Most of the vanity lights (and I replace every single light fixture in the house last year) I have used do not need to be centered and have extra holes for mounting it over an off-center electrical box.

No, I think you've got it.

I could indeed cut more drywall to move the hole and mount a deep electrical box but then the fixture would be off-center by about 2".

This particular vanity light has only one means of mounting it and no options for alignment or adjustment -- I debated finding a hole saw to bore a new route for the wiring and a few new holes for alignment but decided against it -- and the fixture itself is actually narrower than the electrical box itself (something I've never seen before) so even if I were to move the box and reroute the wiring, the same portion of the box would still be exposed.

[Trann]

New item...

Anyone have experience with fitted blinds and PVC windows? Wifey is set on having me install some for her.

http://www.opennshut.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/50mm-Shuttermatch-Full-view.jpg

My gut is telling me that I should be wary of a few things:

- naturally, PVC is unforgiving: drill incorrectly and there's no way to patch it
- warranties may be voided: I'll be checking with the manufacturer on this
- support is critical: I don't want to rely on PVC for support using blinds that will be pulled on probably daily so I'll need to use some 3" screws just to reach the studs, no doubt.

Anyone with some stories or experience in what to avoid?

...

As part of my research, I came across a UK company that sells what could be described as a framing insert for your windows that will accept the blinds, leaving your window frames unmarred. I love innovative ideas but I can't imagine the cost shipping this from the UK...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXz_xv5w7co
Ref. Perfect Fit Blinds (http://www.perfect-fit-blinds.com/)

[SniperD5]

Next time you're at my place, check out the blinds in my living room and kitchen. All the same style you're talking about, except they're wooden slats (more expensive, but lighter which was important on that size of window, due to the pulley system). They're mounted with long screws up through the PVC window casing and into the header above the window. Easy Peasy to install. I helped hold the other end while the guy installed them. We only paid for installation, because $50 total for those huge windows was well worth it. No way I wanted to fuck that up.

[huge1s]

most of the blinds I have seen (and installed in my own house) are mounted to the frame around the window, not the window itself. You screw the mounting brackets in through the drywall and into the header. Excuse my ignorance.... but do you have PVC around the entire window opening?

I put blinds in my basement and most of the upstairs and got them from justblinds.com. They often run deals and have been pretty happy with them.

[SVTF]

most of the blinds I have seen (and installed in my own house) are mounted to the frame

This ... our blinds (PVC) are screwed into the frame - wood.

[Wedge Rock]

Last couple of sets of blinds I installed were screwed into the window frame, which was drywall over the window framing. I have installed rods above the window opening as well, but that was for curtains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXz_xv5w7co
Ref. Perfect Fit Blinds (http://www.perfect-fit-blinds.com/)

I have a set of very similar blinds in my living room. Wife custom ordered the size... The brackets screwed in above the window frame (not in the window itself). Then the blinds just snap into the brackets.

Mine aren't 100% coverage like the video shows, but pretty close. And the space between the blinds is covered by the framing between the windows.

[huge1s]

I went back and watched the video and now understand what you are talking about. If it were me... I wouldn't even think of drilling into the window itself. Water is not your friend and I wouldn't want to risk compromising the air tight seal between the panes (I assume they are at least double pane) either.

[Trann]

I should clarify: the window in my photo example only illustrates the blinds, not the windows; in that photo, it's probably easy to mount to the wood framing, I agree.

My windows are PVC framed and fit the 6" exterior wall; the wood in the sample picture below is actually a PVC frame extension...

http://www.paramountwindows.com/images/images/window-freedom-new.jpg

...which you can see in this foam-filled image here...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_0857.jpg

No wood. So to mount to that requires drilling through the PVC.

Now, I've already contacted the manufacturer and they're fine with it: it won't void warranties, it's only an extension, and it's completely standard practice.

So my assumption to just bore right through the PVC and into the header above (or the side jambs, depending on the mount) is probably right and just what Sniper described.

I'll definitely take a look next time, Sniper; wifey wants those wooden slats, too.

[SniperD5]

Bring her to the next game too. I'll show you the brackets they're mounted on. On a smaller window, installation would be super easy. On a big window, pretty easy, if you have a second set of hands helping you.

[Trann]

Some progress shots...

The idea to stage in the living room was a brilliant one: tools, paint, trash, fixtures, ... anything involved in this job is left in here so we can live in the other spaces in peace.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1203.jpg

Anyone want to buy a numbered print of a pastel landscape, drymounted? It's probably going up on Kijiji...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1204.jpg

Since we're redoing the floors, the trim needs to be pulled, including the doors (which will need to be chopped down to refit), and carefully numbered and bundled. I'd hate to have a jigsaw puzzle to solve at the end of this. And removing them made painting soooOOOooo much easier. Note to future self: paint this way everytime.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1207.jpg

Hallway done, with new fixtures...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1210.jpg

Dining done to match; the colour is a light tan -- slightly darker than the man cave space -- and washes out nicely in sunlight but looks warm under incandescents...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1208.jpg

I forgot to take pictures of the evidence before hand but those of you with young'uns know the kind of damage they can do to corners. I spent a bit of time to build them up...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1211.jpg

...and now it's like they're new again...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/PokerTrann/MainReno/101_1212.jpg

Wifey is pondering new fixtures for the dining/kitchen areas as well as whether or not she wants me to lay tile on the kitchen backsplash.

She can tell you and your wifey all about it at the next game, Sniper. 8)

[Wedge Rock]

Just mount them above the window framing (and into the header) instead of through the window framing.

[Trann]

But, more importantly, do you want to by the numbered print?