Oct 22 - Freeze Out Tourney Plan

[Hagar]

I'm going to select the 22nd over the 29th rather than put myself through the hell that would be trying to run a poll. I'm guessing that the 29th will be some conflict problems for some of you with rugrats who may be attending some Halloween function on the 29th, hence the decision for the 22nd.

Event: $50 buy-in NL Texas Hold'em Tourney

When: Oct 22, 4:00 p.m. start time

Seats: Limited to 30 players (since the starting stacks are so large, I don't see there being reserved seating within the first 3 rounds)

Payouts: 3-7 Dependent on # players (Winner will get somewhere in the $350 neighborhood, last payout spot will get at least $100. Exact payouts will be published once event fills, or on game day if the number of players is in question until the last minute as it usually is.

$45 from each buy-in will go towards the payout pool.
$5 from each buy-in will go towards a Bounty* booty pool

There will also be an optional participation $5 per player High Hand Jackpot**. ($5 in addition to the $50 Buy-In)

*Bounty - each player will be issued a special Bounty chip. When a player is all-in, one Bounty chip goes into the pot with his chips. Bounty chips collected are worth $5 ea. regardless of how you finish in the tourney. If you have collected Bounty chips from other players, you only risk "your" Bounty chip when going all-in. If you have collected 6 Bounty chips and then get eliminated, you'll get $30 in Bounty money.

**High Hand Jackpot - This is an optional participation jackpot. If you want to be eligible, you have to kick in another $5. The player that had the highest hand once the tourney is over, will collect the entire HHJP. IF all 30 players choose to get in, it will be a $150 JP. First flush will start the High Hand board. The hand doesn't need to be called down to qualify, but it must be shown. I'll likely ask another player to manage this pool.

Event structure: (I'm gonna bite off a little hunk of headache and make this a big starter-stack tourney. Not sure how long it will take, so I'm starting a little earlier than usual.)

Starting Stack: 5,000 T$
Blind structure (20 minute rounds):
5/10,
10/25 (rase off 5 chips),
25/50 (10-15 minute break),
50/100 (race off 25 chips),,
100/200,
200/500, (10-15 minute break)
500/1000 (possible 100 ante - race off 100 chips if ante not implemented*),
1000/2000 (possible 200 ante) (10-15 minute break),
2000/4000 (posible 200 ante - top blinds based on 30 player entry)(breaks as needed)

*I'm not a fan of antes, but since this tourney could drag out a while we'll take stock after the 6th level. If we have 16 or more players still active at that point, we'll implement the antes for the remainder of the tourney. If we don't start the ante at this point, we will not implement it all.

Dealers: I'll deal one table and plan to deal throughout the tourney regardless of my tourney status. I'll need two other volunteers.

Seating: Dealers will be randomly assigned to a table. All other players will be randomly assigned to one of the other 27 seats.

Starting buttons will be designated by random selection on each table.

Tables will balanced as necessary throughout the tourney. When one table has 2 (or more) fewer players than one of the other tables, a player from the "full" table will be randomly selected to move (dealers excluded from random moves). In the event that both of the other tables are equal (eg: short table has 7, other tables have 9), the table to transfer a player will be randomly selected.

When we get down to 20 players, the players at the "short" table will be randomly assigned to one of the other tables. When we get down to 10 players, the two tables will combine and redraw for button and seat position.

When we get down to 21 and 11 players, all tables will proceed on a "hand to hand" (tables will not start the next hand until all tables have completed a hand) basis to ensure fairness to all.

Standard BYOC rules apply and shall be specified in writing in a couple of weeks. Once you have signed up, you'll get a very detailed set of rules sent to you. It will be long and boring but you will be resonsible for knowing them. There will be a brief review before we start, but know them before you arrive.

Stuff I need from others:
- I will need 2 players to volunteer to drag tables over.
- Some extra KEM or Copag cards would be welcome as I think I have a couple of scarred decks.
- One dealer button
- If somebody with a set of chips that are different than mine (I have one set of 11.5g striped diamond and one set of "cheapo" 9g solid diamond) would volunteer them for a possible cash game, it would be appreciated (i'll need to mix some of the chips form both sets to accomodate 5K stacks for 30 people).

Bringing your own chair will be absolutely critical for this one or you'll likely be standing!

Miscelaneous Blather: (but stuff you should know)
As much as I would prefer payment in advance, that is a huge nightmare. We're a group of honor. I'll have a one week cutoff before the event: if you have committed to be there after that point (Oct 15), you will owe me $50 whether you show or not. If you find that you can't attend after the deadline, let me know and we'll try to fill your seat with a standby.

As usual, I'll give regular BYOCers first shot at the seats, but there will likely be room for some guests. I'll put out the Evite early next week. Reservations will be limited to invitees until Oct 8. At that point I'll start accepting reservations for your guests. First come first serve. You are responsible for your guest's entry fee - if they flake YOU owe me the money. If we get more than 30 reserved, I'll start a list of standby players who are willing to cover last minute bailouts. I don't expect them to show up without a reserved seat, but they are welcome to come if they are feeling lucky. If there is a standby present and there is an unexpected no-show at startup, I'll sell the no-show's seat to the standby (in a heartbeat!). If you know you're going to be a few minutes late, you better let me know. You'll be blinded off, but you'll get your seat. If there is no standby, you'll be blinded off for the first hour (3 blind levels) and then picked up if you're not there. If you know you're going to be later than that (and still want to pay to be blinded off) we'll blind you off until you plan to show. You'll get up to one blind level of grace period for this deadline (eg: you expect to be there by 3:30- when the blind level expires that is occuring at 3:30, your seat is toast).

Cash game: not guaranteed. Not sure what the inclination for a cash game will be and have no idea when one of the tables will open to do so. If the table is open and you want to start a game, knock yourself out. I'll likely be busy with the tournement until it is over (playing and or dealing) so someone else will have to run it.

That should be enough drivel to start some kind of shit. See you all on the 22nd! I'm willing to be a little flexible in the starting time, but not by much, and only if there's a large demand. Other than that, consider this tourney plan etched in stone.

[Edits in Red]

[Quads]

I like it.

I puched your numbers into Tourney Director and got this:

Tourney Time 3:10
$1500 in prize money

Payout looked like this: (TD suggested payout structure)
1st 40% - $600
2nd 23% - $345
3rd 13% - $195
4th 10% - $150
5th 8% - $120
6th 6% - $90

If you wish I can bring a laptop and run TD in the background for all to see. I can also bring a table if needed (and anything else you may need).

[Hagar]

Your table and other supplies is welcome. Don't really need the tourney director - just something else to wrestle with IMO. I already have a payout structure built - a little less top heavy and gets the last place money more than a double up.

Thanks

[Ender]

Mark,

Sounds great to me! I'm for sure in on this, and will be happy to deal a table as I have done in the past.

I have a brand new set of KEM, as well, that I'm happy to bring. I'll bring my chips as well, although they're not all fancy like some of the others'.

Let me know if you need anything, and I'll look forward to the invite.

-David

[Hagar]

although they're not all fancy

They don't need to be fancy, just different than mine. Thanks

[Dodger]

I have chips (too close probably), chair, table, KEM cards, dealer button, Crack (shook off heroin), beer, smokes, cookies, brownies and anything else that may be needed is a short Walmart trip away. Wait, can someone loan me $50.

[Moddy]

I'll offer the Mardi Gras low denom chips for a live game if you'd like - either way.

Oct 22 is a LAN that we're throwin but I'm gonna bounce early from there. Gonna burn up like $100 in gas that day - from Cameron Park to Antelope, and from there to Rancho Murietta :eek:

All in teh name of some good fun :)

[Quads]

Your table and other supplies is welcome. Don't really need the tourney director - just something else to wrestle with IMO. I already have a payout structure built - a little less top heavy and gets the last place money more than a double up.

Thanks
I'd be interested is seeing what you worked out for payouts for the tourney if you don't mind sharing!

[shiz]

hmm.. I was planning on making another trip to sacramento in october. maybe I will have to plan it around the 22nd. of course if I show I will offer my dealing services if need be, but I have to figure out the trip first.

[Hagar]

I'd be interested is seeing what you worked out for payouts for the tourney if you don't mind sharing!

All in good time grasshopper....

Shiz - hope you can make it. No way we'd make you do a busman's holiday though - thanks for the offer!

[partykid707]

Unless i can not get it off i am in and i have a set of kems i can bring and i will deal if you need me to

mike (pk)

[nosegoblin]

Hagar. Count me in. I'm usually scheduled to work until 2 pm, but I think that I can get out an hour early. I'll keep you posted via email on my schedule. Tom

[Hagar]

I'd be interested is seeing what you worked out for payouts for the tourney if you don't mind sharing!

For the record, here is my intended payout grid:
Up to 15: 3 places - 50%, 30%,20%
16-19: 4 places - 40%, 25%, 20%, 15%
20-23: 5 places - 35%, 25%, 17%, 13%, 10%
24-27: 6 places - 30%, 23%, 15%, 13%, 10%, 9%
28-32: 7 places - 28 %, 21%, 14%, 11%, 10%, 9%, 8%

If you're curious, my goal in tournies (especially big tournies) is to pay as many players as possible and get the person in the money at least twice their buy-in back. I prefer a little flatter payout than a real top heavy payout structure. We all know that the winner of a tourney is the winner based in a large part on luck. Yes skill helps get through some moments, but it is a "short term" game. I think that everyone in the money should get a decent payday for getting there as opposed to one person getting a huge payout and everyone else getting consolation prizes. Just my philosophy.

As I eluded to in my previous post, this structure will get first place between $345 and $420 and last place between $100 and $150 depending on what number of players we land on. You have about a 1 in 4 chance of getting in the money (+ or - your personal skill factor) which should keep it at a fun level.

[Hagar]

After seeing Quads' Tourney Direction prediction on the original structure, I had him punch a few different numbers in to see what would happen. I realized that with the 25/50 starting blinds, the strucuture wouldn't be any different than a 1K starter and 5/10 blinds - just bigger numbers, similar ratio.

I was hoping for a 5-6 hour event (get your money's worth) so I decidced to restrucure the blinds. The blind rounds will stay at 20 minutes, but we'll start at 5/10 instead of 25/50. This should maek the stacks feel VERY big to start with - no one should feel any impending doom until at least the 4th round or so assuming you can keep your pants on or you don't run itno a real bad situation or 8.

I also decided to move the start time back to 4:00 so everyone could have a half day to take care of honey-dos (or whatever). This should get us done with the tourney by 10:00ish. Even if it goes a couple hours longer it won't be too ugly late. I edited the original post to reflect these changes.

[Ender]

Hagar,

I like the edits that you have made to the tourney. Are we going to use $5 chips now, in addition to $25, and race off the $5 maybe in the 2nd or 3rd round? Either way, it should be fun having huge stacks and not having to worry about making a move within 30 min like you do in the Derby tourneys.

The payout structure is fine with me. There will still be competition, but not as much as there would be with a top heavy payout, making the game more FUN, which is why I'm going to be there anyway (if I wanted to make $ and nothing else, I'd go to a card room on my Saturday)

See ya there, and let me know if you need: a dealer, my KEMS, or my chips.

-David

[Hagar]

Are we going to use $5 chips now, in addition to $25, and race off the $5 maybe in the 2nd or 3rd round?

Yes, that would be the plan. We'll buy down the $5 chips after the second round.

[Hagar]

Evites are out. If you didn't get one and think you should have, let me know.

[Moddy]

Evites are out. If you didn't get one and think you should have, let me know.OH yeah buddy - I'm all up in this beehatch!

[partykid707]

The more i am hearing about this tourny the more i am getting excited. I have been dying to play in a "real tourny" and as cheesy as it sounds, like you see on tv. With the super blinds system that they have at limelight derby and rancho you just do not get the satisfaction of being able to play the way you want to and the final table usually turns into a who has the bigger balls crap shoot with the blinds being anywhere from 10%-50% of your stack. It will be nice to not be forced to make a move right away and being able to sit back and play whatever strategy you want. I think the only place i have been able to play a tourny like this is online but online it is hard to play the game you want to, you need the felt the chips and the cards to really play a true game of poker. Thanks for setting up the game hagar and i will do everything i can to not work that night
mike(pk)

[Hagar]

I made a few changes to the payout. Assuming Quads is willing to bring his shiny new bounty chips, I'm gonna give the Bounty thing a try. It shold add a little bit of excitement and give some players a chance to get something out of the deal even if they don't get into the money. I don't think the payouts will be affected seriously and those who finish in the money will likely have their share of Bounties to make up for some of the payout loss.

I'll also have an optional HHJP. Anyone want to volunteer to manage the HHJP?

These changes have been added to the original post in red.

[Quads]

I do not know when I will get my bounty chips. This is a group buy through another forum, so I'll need to check it out over there and see.
I would not plan on having them for this tourney a this point, becasue I know there is a lag time from the time we purchase them , they produce them, and they are shipped. But I may (hopefully) be wrong, and they might get here in the next week or so. Any old chip (other than those that are in play) will work for a bounty chip. If you want some other bounty chips, I'd be happy to bring some.

[Hagar]

I got some off colored chips I can use if your fancy-schmancy ones don't show up in time. Your other chips would be welcome for the cas game though.

Thanks

[Moddy]

I got some off colored chips I can use if your fancy-schmancy ones don't show up in time. Your other chips would be welcome for the cas game though.

Thanks

If it's a $5 bounty, I can bring a stack of $5 Mardi Gras chippers if Quads' order doesn't pan out.

[Hagar]

If you feel the need to, by all means - as long as they are a different color than the chips I'll have in play (red, green, black, white).

[Moddy]

If you feel the need to, by all means - as long as they are a different color than the chips I'll have in play (red, green, black, white).

This is a pic of the $5 chip:

http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0905/mg5.jpg'


EDIT: It dont' matter to me - I'm just offering -

[Ender]

Hagar,

This is evolving to be an excellent tourney! I can't wait, honestly. All the additions that you are making will allow lots of payouts, with top 3 still taking a good hunk of $$, and lots of added features that will make it exciting for everyone! Bring it on!

I'll still deal, if necessary, and can run the HHJP if needed. Let me know. My KEM cards are coming... I really want to break them in on a REAL tourney!

-david

... This has the makings to be the best BYOC tourney yet!

[BigKahuna]

Just a suggestion for your new KEMS.....break 'em out and shuffle them good before they make it to the table or we will have all the nice white shavings to contend with if you wait to give them some good shuffling for the first time at the table.

Hags, let me know if you need anymore decks or chips, etc. I will most likely bring my set-up in case we have people ready for cash game.

[Hagar]

Hags, let me know if you need anymore decks or chips, etc. I will most likely bring my set-up in case we have people ready for cash game.

Well I have about 75 offers of extra chips. I just need one backup set in case there is interest in a cash game (don't want to chance any tourney chips ending up on the cash table).

My volunteer inventory so far:
Tables: Dodger, Quads (done)

Dealers: Kid (still need one volunteer)

HHJP Manager: Kid volunteered; I'd prefer to have a non dealer running this.

Chips: Quads, Kid, Dodger, BK, Moddy, PK.... (whoever's going to absolutely step up on these, need to plan on being presnet for whatever the duration is (at least until the tourney is over). Executive Decision: BK, your chips are easily portable - if you plan to stay the duration, please bring your chips. If you can't commit to the duration speak up.

Button: Dodger (done)

Cards: Just about every one.....Go ahead and bring them since they're not big deal to toss in your car. First couple sets to arrive will go on the tables. (Done)

Bounty Chips: Quads, if your special chips come in, please bring them. Moddy- your chips are close enough in color to cause confusion, thank though. I have some blue chips which will not be in play to use if Quads' chips don't come in. (Done)

Anything I left out?

[Ace-in-Space]

Cocktail waitresses in skimpy outfits?

[BigKahuna]

I plan on staying the whole day unless there is no interest in the cash game after at least 6 or more people bust out. I will bring my set-up and anyone can use for cash game afterwards.

[Ace-in-Space]

Scooter mentioned on an earlier post about coming to the tourney in a costume since we are so close to Holloween. How about instead of a High Hand Jackpot we take $30 out of the pool and award $20 to the first, $10 to the second and $5 to the third best costumes for those who wants to show up in one (the judging will be done by voting, each player gets a vote).

[Hagar]

The HHJP ewill come from a second, voluntary pool. No thanks -you guys are scary enough without costumes!

[Ender]

Lol,

Sounds good to me. I'll be dealing then, it looks like, and we can get someone else to run the high hand JP.

Kahuna, thanks for the tip on the KEM's. They've been used by my roommate and I when we go heads up, so those stupid shavings are long gone... they just need to see some tourney action!

I'll bring the cards, just in case... sounds like we'll have plenty of other stuff going... but I bet some extra chairs would be good... I know I only have that 1.

-david

[partykid707]

i can deal and bring kems but you put me down as bringing chips, that i do not have
mike(pk)[/quote]

[Hagar]

ok, I have PK down as the third dealer.

[joerammerjr]

Still need someone to manage the HHJP? I'll do it if you haven't assigned someone to that task yet.

[Hagar]

OK Joe it is for the HHJP. Thanks

[Quads]

Nicely done in the two following threads for the planning and misc. info.
I wish I were as detail oriented as you were all of the time.

This is sure to be a tough act to follow.

Props to Hag's.
Give it up for Tiltmiester Hagar! :P

[Ender]

Seriously! This looks to be one of the best tourneys that BYOC will have ever hosted... we've got it all, tourey action, high hand, bounty, side games, BBQ action!

I'll be sure to bring my digital SLR to capture some of the action packed moments... I'll just have to let someone else take pictures while I gather up the first place bounty 8)

-david

[Hagar]

"I wish I were as detail oriented as you were all of the time. "

Thanks. I porefer to plug any foreseeable holes to avoid complications at game time. Just the way I'm wired.

But it is a bit of a curse - I have no idea what I'm gonna do for the next 2 1/2 weeks. I'm ready to roll right now.....

[Daddy]

Seriously! This looks to be one of the best tourneys that BYOC will have ever hosted... we've got it all, tourey action, high hand, bounty, side games, BBQ action!-david

BBQ?!?!?

[Hagar]

Sorry Daddy, I don't think we can BBQ taquitos......

[Daddy]

Well it's pretty obvious that I won't be able to make it then.......good luck all!! :shaking:

[Moddy]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am really looking forward to the tourney next week! Since you'll be BBQ'n, I'll bring some kind of flesh to throw on there - something simple or whatever - and maybe make up a batch of bbq sauce for the festivities :)

[Hagar]

I'm just gonna do some dogs - don't want it to get complicated. Fire up, torch, chow, back to game.

[Moddy]

I'm just gonna do some dogs - don't want it to get complicated. Fire up, torch, chow, back to game.
Can certainly bring some if you'd like - or buns - or money for the chow - whatever :)

[Hagar]

I'm just gonna hit up Costco and buy a buschel of dogs and buns and a couple gallons of condiments. I'd appreciate it if you'd chip in to the donation jar. Thanks.

[Ender]

Is anyone else totally looking forward to this weekends game, or is it just me??? :mrgreen:

-david

[Daddy]

I have been one big goose bump since the announcement!! LOL!! I should just show up, write a check and go home....

Seriously though....I am really looking forward to playing. I just pulled a couple hundred out of my online account and am looking forward to seeing who gets to take that home!! LOL!!

[Ace-in-Space]

Hey, Hagar, get a pack of Adelle's sausages (about 20 count) too. You could charge $1 to $2 for the regular hot dog and $2 to $3 for Adelle's. I will be your cashier.

[Hagar]

Since it's a voluntary kick-in, I'm charging anything "per".

I'm gettin' whatever Costco has by the pallet....

[Ender]

Nothing like a pallet of processed meat to make this day complete! I do like me a good hot dog, though... I'll be sure to kick into the donation jar... I'll have plenty after I take first in the tourney 8)

-david

[Rob]

Nothing like a pallet of processed meat to make this day complete! I do like me a good hot dog, though... I'll be sure to kick into the donation jar... I'll have plenty after I take first in the tourney 8)


There are two firsts. First place, which I will take, and first out which will give someone pleanty of time to eat hot dogs...
:lol:

[Ender]

Oooh, it's on like Donkey Kong!

Bring it!! :P

-Kid

[Hagar]

Wow. Weezy steppin' up, beatin' his chest and announcing his presence with authority.

Let the games begin.....

[BigKahuna]

Anyone coming to play the Saturday early morning Derby tournament as a warm-up? It will be all-day poker for me with tourney, NL cash at Derby and then BYOC tourney and hopefully no cash game until 10pm.

Normal time to get there for sign-ups is about 6:45am.

Hopefully see you there.

[Ender]

Oooh tempting, Kahuna... if I'm there at 6:45 I'll be able to get a seat and not be an alternate? If so, I can swing that... we should go grab some breakfast after signups...

-david

[Ace-in-Space]

Would anybody be interested in playing golf at El Dorado Hills around 10:45, 11ish prior to the tourney on Saturday? It is an executive course so my best guess is that we should be done with 18 in 4 hours (I have only played there once but I don't remember how long it took). It is not too far from Rancho Murieta so we should make the 3:45pm time.

Call me at 396-9088 so I could make a reservation.

Tom

[BigKahuna]

Kid, I have played maybe 10 times in that tourney and always show up at 6:45 and have only gotten 2nd alternate one time. So, you should be fine. I would definitely be up for grub after sign-up as well. If I see you there, let's do it.

[Ace-in-Space]

I've made a reservation for a 4some at EDH Golf Course for 11 am. Please call me if you want to play. Should be done by 3 pm. About 20 minutes to Hagar's from the course.

3 spots available.

[Dodger]

You're probably dreaming in playing that in 4 hours. Executive courses don't draw the "better" players and the course does have some tough par 3's. You may be able to pull it off, but I wouldn't gamble on it.

[Ace-in-Space]

Agreed, since I played with a group of beginners the first and only time I played there. However, if we (I am using the plural hypothetically) tee off at 11 (since I got a firm tee time instead of wait listed) we should be at Hagar's by 4 (I am confident that we should be done by 3:30 and that's 4.5 hours). Keep in mind the groups are not all going to be 4somes in front of us and I will knock a few people down with my precision shots if they are dragging (those BYOCers who are coming will just be prepared to fight if the group in front takes exceptions, but don't worry, I will pick my target selectively, which means women, seniors and children.)

If anybody is interested see the invitation on page 3 of this thread and call me. If no one is coming I will just solo it before 11.

I understand that executive course such as this one will not excite the better players. The reason I am playing there is because I will be in ElDo that morning and it is a nice segue to the tourney (instead of driving back to E. Sac and back again a few hours later.)

[Hagar]

I have to agree with Dodger on this Ace. You could really be pushing your luck to get done by 3:30. There's a pretty strong chance that there will be a tournament scheduled in front of you and those tend to slow things up.

The players out there tend to be very old (they like the short course) or very young (they like the price) and niether of those groups tend to be real fast players. And all it takes is one slow group in front of you and you are toast. There's just enough long par 3s and water out there to make for a long day.

And 20 minutes from there to my place is counting on 1)Knowing the back roads and 2) not getting behind any slugs on the back roads (there's pretty much no way around slugs if you're taking the back roads).

Highway 50 to Sunrise and over is gonna be closer to 45 minutes (if not more).

If you want to be late, we'll start taking your blinds, but please don't recruit any of my table donors or dealers....

[Ace-in-Space]

Ye of little faith. I am willing to start at 10:45 if any interest.

You could blind me off if I'm not there by 4, since the chip stack is huge compared to the blinds initially, not playing the first round may an advantage (we're starting with 5/10 with 5000 chips and the main event in WS starts with 25/50 with 10000 in chips.)

What is the back way? I had the same drive last time I took EDH Bl. to 50 to Scott Rd. to White Rock by to Scott Rd. to Latrobe to Stone House to Jackson Rd., etc.

[Hagar]

I'ts not a matter of faith - it's a matter of reality especially for a mid-day weekend round.

Don't worry, we WILL blind you off if you're late.

You can actually stay on Eldo Blvd across 50 and turn right on White Rock. other than that you have the route I use.

[Ace-in-Space]

I am not worried. At 5/10 and 10/25 I will be out about 100 chips at the most even if I am late 40 minutes (that is assuming you could deal 1 min. per hand.) I still got 4900. Besides, there is not guarantee that the tourney will start at 4 sharp, since not everyone will be there at 3:45. I will give an over/under line at 4:12 with late arrivals, collection entry fees, assigning tables, etc.)

[Hagar]

I will give an over/under line at 4:12

Don't count on that. I'll be disappointed if we're that late....

[BigKahuna]

Is it me or is "Ace" just a crazy little chatter bug on the forum.....but a mute at the table. So funny to read his wit and thoughts on the forum when I can barely understand him or get more than a sentence at a time out of him at the table.

Split personality? Tom, you in there?

[Ace-in-Space]

BK--I've got nimbler fingers than tongue, or is that TMI.

Hagar--As much that we all want to start on time, we could also count on a few later arrivals to jam up the works.

But if it will make you happy. I will scrap the old line and post a new one:

Over/Under: Number of players inside Hagar's property (or just outside it as long as we could see them) at 4PM: 27 (count me as being on time.)

Must lay 6 to 5 (you could either bet $6 or $12).

[Quads]

Who wants to start a pool that Ace will show up on time (over / under) if he plays golf that day. We'll throw in the odds of the tourney starting on time as well to put a little mix in it.....

[BigKahuna]

What would a BYOC game be without Ace arriving late. I will take some action.

[Hagar]

I guess you don't understand my position: I don't care how many are late; the cards are going to hit the air at 4:00. Late players can pay me at the table. At 3:55, I'm gonna start picking seats for the late players. I'll balance the tables as necesary and run 'em.

(In case you haven't noticed, events like this bring out the Nazi in me. ;) )

This event has every possibility of lasting a relatively long time. We need to start on time.

[BigKahuna]

I totally understand Hags and will have my butt in a seat by 3:45 at the latest. Just fun ribbing to be had.

[Ace-in-Space]

My tee time is at 11 and I promise to play all 18 and drive the normal speed.

My real interest is who wants to play golf with me. I rather play with people I know. I don't have to bet on golf. In fact the most I have won/loss on a golf course was about $20 on a single day.

[Ender]

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!

Kahuna, I'll try to get my butt outta bed and to Derby by 6:30 so we can chop that tourney then chop the BYOC tourney a few hours later... plus, some french toast and eggs does the body good... I'll look for ya!

-david

[BigKahuna]

Hey Hags....in going over the rules, is this one correct?

"-A short All-In bet does not open the action for the original bettor to re-raise unless the All-In is at least 50% more than the original bet. Example: Player A opens for 2000. Player B goes All-In for 2800. Player A may not re-raise based on that action. Players behind the All-In have the option of re-raising and other players may have raised enough to allow Player A to re-raise. "

I thought it does not open raising to anyone in the hand with the short-all0in bet...aren't choices normally limited to either call the all-in bet or raise all-in yourself? Thought there was not the option of re-raising the original raiser with a normal raise above the all-in bet?

[Quads]

Those are from Robert's Rules of Poker, which are correct. The reason being is that the rasie (all in) is not more than 50% of the initial bet, thus there can be no re-raise if you will.

[Hagar]

The reason for the "short all-in raise, not opening for reraise" clause is to prevent somebody from taking advantage of getting otheres sucked into a pot and then really putting a hurt on the others trapped in the middle.

If I open for 500 into a 500 pot and you make a desperation all-in raise for 600, I could, without this rule, shove the rest of my (hopefully) big stack putting a lot of pressure on the 2 or 3 others who may have already come in for the 500 or even the 600. The pot may have not been worth stealing or risking my stack for before all of the action, but might be now that it's up to
2600.

If a player behind you has not yet acted, he/she does have the option to raise, even though there was a short raise in front of him - he hasn't had a chance to act yet. Player(s) who acted before your shove, does not have the option to raise based on your action.

Although I'm not real concerned about it with this group, the rule is a collusion prevention rule. It's a pretty standard rule as far as I know. I'm just specifying it before it happens tomorrow.

Clear?

[BigKahuna]

I understand that part. Guess I am confusing myself and we are all probably saying the same thing but differently.

[Hagar]

If there is something that is not clear please ask. I have to admit that I'm not clear on exactly what you are asking...

[BigKahuna]

I will save it for Saturday pre-game so we can have live demo which is easier to understand for everyone.